Many atheists behold the persistence of religion in the West - and especially in America and its politics - with something close to incredulity. How can it be, they lament, that despite the absence of any evidence for the central tenets of Christianity, despite the enormous progress of science in explaining the origins of the Earth and its inhabitants, that so many people continue to believe pre-Enlightenment gobbledegook?
That the world was created by an invisible deity, that He later impregnated a virgin who then bore a son who was His own father, that we have immortal souls and will live for ever in Heaven if we are good and love Jesus - how can anyone who has even attended high school believe such things?
And how can agreement with this nonsense be a prerequisite for winning the support of the American electorate? It defies belief.
So it does. And if something defies belief, a good starting position is not to believe it. That is my position. I am not shocked by the persistence of religious belief in the West because I do not believe it exists. It is simply not possible for people who know as much as modern Westerners do to believe in the central tenets of Christianity or the other major religions.
Of course, religious assertion persists. But there are many reasons for saying religious things other than actually believing them. Most often, I suspect, people are expressing their hopes rather than their beliefs - substituting “I believe” for “I wish” in the unconscious endeavour to convince themselves.
The real test for genuine belief is not what people say, but what they do. To believe something is to be disposed to act upon it. The vast majority of Western Christians fail this test. Imagine this. Recognising that many people find their children an unwelcome burden, the Government creates a network of slaughterhouses. Each year, about a million unwanted children are dropped off for extermination.
It is a horrifying idea. Anyone who believed it to be happening would surely rise up against the regime, with violence if necessary, or at the very least passively resist by not paying taxes or refusing to recognise the legitimacy of the State. To do nothing while millions of children are murdered would display despicable moral complacency.
Yet British Roman Catholics allegedly believe that such slaughter is really happening. They claim that humans have immortal souls from conception, and that killing a foetus is no less murder than killing a ten-year-old. From the Catholic point of view, abortion clinics are slaughterhouses for children.
Is the lack of anti-abortion militancy - at least in Britain - not then strange? If they believe what they claim to, they are no better than those who turned a blind eye to Nazi atrocities. But I do not think they are that wicked. It is just that they don't really believe the things they say about foetuses and immortal souls.
I do not mean to pick on Roman Catholics. All Christians fail to act on their avowed beliefs. Suppose you believed that Heaven exists and that only some of us will qualify to live in it for ever, as the vast majority of Christians claim to. How would this affect your behaviour?
It would depend on what you thought were the admission criteria for Heaven. But whatever you took these virtues to be, they would utterly dominate your life. When everlasting bliss is on offer, nothing else matters at all. People who believed in Heaven would surely act quite unlike those who do not.
Yet the expected behavioural difference is not to be observed. The vast majority of Christians display a remarkably blasé attitude toward their approaching day of judgment, leading lives almost indistinguishable from those of us open non-believers. Put simply, they fail the behavioural test for belief.
So do American politicians. All claim to be Christians but they approach policy exactly as non-believers would. Consider John McCain and Barack Obama, to take the most topical examples. Both recommend policies on grounds that weigh only earthly costs and earthly benefits. The afterlife consequences are never mentioned.
By the light of their avowed Christianity, this is perverse. If we have immortal souls, then earthly costs and benefits are an infinitesimal fraction of the total. For true believers, the first question to ask about any policy ought to be: How does it affect people's chances of getting into Heaven? But this is never even the last question asked.
American politicians obviously do not really believe that we have immortal souls. And they know that voters do not believe it either. They know that, contrary to popular mythology, a politician who approached policy from a truly Christian perspective would be considered an unelectable lunatic.
The persistence of religious profession is irritating. It is a sign of something intellectually unserious in the professor and his appreciative audience. But it is not alarming once you realise that it is all just talk.
Jamie Whyte is the author of Bad Thoughts: A Guide to Clear Thinking
1) Catholics are vocal witnesses to the abortion culture.
2) Jesus tell us to 'render unto Caesar' i.e. pay your taxes
3) Jesus abhors violence, so that isn't an option.
4) The Bible does not advocate theological rule.
5) Politicians lacking your version of belief are not atheists by default.
Will, Dundee,
A most wise man once said, "By their fruits shall ye know them." What are the fruits of scientific atheism when applied to human behavior and governance?
Auschwitz. Gulag. The Laogai. Reeducation camps. Babi Yar. Dachau. Srebrenica. The Cultural Revolution.
To Hell with atheism, Mr. Whyte.
Richard L. Kent, Esq., Easpointe, MI, USA
Let X equal individual percent of humility, Y equal corresponding percent of egoism, (total: !00%) and Z equal the degree of internal "at homeness in the universe/happiness." the meaning to life may be found in X over Y equals Z. It doesn't matter where the equation originates, It's true.
Chuck Mason, Olympia WA, U.S.A
As a recent convert to the faith, I wish to thank Mr Whyte for this wake up call. 95% of what he says is absolutely true and we as the church are guilty of all he procures. Christianity however should be believed because it is true not because we want it to be. I am no fool and neither was Christ
Corey Knowles, Newcastle,
I am very firm in my belief that there is a God and I strive to follow the Christian faith. J.Whyte has brought to the fore the important issues nominal Christians need to contemplate, providing a catalyst for Christian pride rather than opposing it.
Sarah, Belfast, N.Ireland
Throughout human history, the most intelligent people who have ever lived have disagreed about God. By regarding this as an issue about which intelligent people cannot disagree, Whyte removes himself from serious consideration. His view may be comforting to an atheist, but it's not very logical.
Hugh, Dripping Springs, US
The human expression of belief in God is very flawed, be it theistic or atheistic, and neither flawed expression is definitive of Truth. The majority of our arguments either come from intellectual conceit or cultural indoctrination and are no substitute for the true discovery of heart, soul and God.
Griff, Cardiff, Wales
Father Christmas ended for me about 15 years ago (Im 20), fairies about the same time, and yet grown adults believe in a sky dad to give their life meaning. How sad. I find the likelihood that I'm here for no higher reason far more humbling. Life without higher meaning isnt meaningless.
Peter, Oxford, UK
Jamie is spot on and belief in the supernatural is wishful thinking and rather sad.
iain rae, tunbridge wells, t.w.
Religious people are obviously greedy. They are not content with having defied the odds of eveolution to be actually live, they want to then go to an even nicer place and live forever. Understandable but greedy nonsense. I am an athesit and my joy comes from being here. I am fulfilled by that.
Matthew, Dundee,
Bob - science doesn't claim to explain "why there is something rather than nothing". Science merely tries to increase our knowledge by experiment, observation and logical thinking. What's wrong with that?
I think it's very sensible.
Especialaly when compared with crackpot religious delusions.
alan, germany,
What Jamie Whyte seems to believe Christians believe is a travesty, and betrays a lack of thought.
Science can do a pretty good job of explaining the origins and evolution of life within "time". But it cannot explain why there is something rather than nothing. That is not what science is about.
bob wilkinson, milnthorpe, cumbria uk
If Heaven is as great as Christians believe it is why is they they don't seem very keen on dying? Why are they sad when someone dies? Surely they should be pleased as that person will be off to heaven, and they'll be joining them in the future.
Mark, Den Haag, Netherlands
I heard that a lot of atheists and agnostics pray when things go wrong, this evidence is I assume just as clear proof of the lack of belief within their belief systems? Sometimes surely people just act inconsistently, or do the wrong thing, maybe we could think of a name for that, how about sin?
Dan Hughes, Birmingham, UK
For most believers, commitment to faith comes not through a desire for or against something, as some naively misconstrue, but a conviction of truth: witnessed by the heart and fertilised in reason.
For us atheism feels shallow and incongruent with our nature and our experiences filled with meaning.
Nathan, Cambridge, UK
Robert Johnson - "if you don't believe in god, you'd better be right." Well, Robert, is that why you "believe" (as I presume you do)? Just in case, so to speak. Better be on the right side, eh? That's really a fine reason to "believe". I bet your god is really impressed.
alan, germany,
This article is interesting, to be sure, but what I found more interesting was the list of comments afterwards. It seems the majority of Christians that commented would rather misconstrue the meaning of the article as an attack on the idea of theism in general (some atheists have done the same) tbc.
Al Busby, Portsmouth, England
At some point, believers decide that they're going to believe. I've often wondered why. I think it's because they're frightened of death (fear) and wish to go to heaven (hope). My conclusion: Faith is an arbitrary decision, contrary to common sense, inspired by fear and sustained by hope.
alan, germany,
Science can't even explain a Thought. Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes? How does "something" come from nothing- big bang theory?
tania, Auckland, New Zealanc
every time I hear about a so called miracle its simply something that is improbable and could obviously occur with or without a god, certain fools just want to attribute the event to a god. If actual miracles existed why wouldn't we see amputees healed or something truely inexplicable.
matt wells, Denver,
If you do not beleive in God: you had better be right.
Robert Johnson, Easton, , U.S.A
A causal read would mislead one to think that it is an insult directed to Christians. However, Jamie is challenging Christians to stand up for what we belive like Muslims do.
I dare you to re-write this article and anywhere Christain/Christianity is mentioned, replace it with "Muslim/Islam."
Ums, Port Harcourt, Nigeria
Good article, its something that I've thought about often. If I really, truly believed in heaven and hell I'd be desperate to convert all my friends and family so they'd be saved. I'd be fanatacial about it. Do most theists just not care that us unbelievers are going to burn forever?
John Gregg, Birmingham, UK
Last month a vicar told me that if he attempted to preach what he had studied in theological college he would be "torn from the pulpit." It seems the flock are usually "elderly and rather anachronistic in their views and they do not want their faith eroded by recent biblical research."
Denis Watkins, CRYMYCH, Wales
I am told by a vicar that if he preached what he really believed, and what he had studied in theological college, he "would be thrown out of his pulpit." It seems "most of my flock are elderly, rather anachronistic in their thinking, and do not want their beliefs disturbed."
Denis Watkins, CRYMYCH, Wales
A few years ago I would have agreed with everything you are saying, but then I discovered it for myself. I discovered HIM. I agree that Christians are humans and therefore sometimes a poor representation of Jesus/God and everything He offers, but He will not disappoint you. You that seeks will find.
Laura, Croydon,
"I don't believe that atheists such as Jamie Whyte really are atheists. He doesn't live acccording to his beliefs as an atheist."
This is exactly why atheists find the religious offensive. What exactly are atheist beliefs? Why do you think that you have to be religious to be moral? Try thinking!!
chris, Whitley Bay,
I suspect that while many people believe in a Supreme Being very few actually support or believe the Doctrine of organised religions, much of which has a dubious provenance and some of which is certainly not about goodness; however it does seem to be about the lust for political power.
Keith, Rayleigh, England
Interesting. I am tempted to go along with your thesis, because SURELY rational people can't really believe such garbage.
However, one only has to look at the level of sophistication (or rather lack of it) in the apologetics offered on this thread to realise that some people just aren't rational.
Gregory van Dyke, Axminster,
If theists really believed in hell there would be no way that they would be having children. In fact Xtians would be taking Paul's advices and not even getting married ! Theists would be 100% devoted to serving their preferred deity rather than pursuing & worshipping the fruits of they loins.
Drew, Sydney, Australia
There is only one Heaven. It's built into the cathedral sized arches and interconnecting tunnels underneath Charing Cross station, has room for 2000 souls and is kitted out with a vast Funktion-One sound re-inforcement system of staggering capability. God is a DJ.
Ivan, London, UK
Christians have known of this disparity for some time:
Matt 7:"The gate is wide..that leads to destruction, and [many enter]. How narrow the gate..that leads to life. And those who find it are few"
Jesus was talking to a highly religious people, telling them that most of them would go to hell.
Greg Lorriman, Leatherhead, UK
To Kenneth B.:I cannot believe that some people still bring the "No God,No morals"(weak) argument.Morals are social consctructs allowing a better/safer life in society,they changed through time and cultures.I find scary that some believer seemingly would turn berserk the instant their faith falters.
Tom, London,
That article truly breaks my heart! how can someone say these things so bluntly, and as if the were all true! Looking into a true Christians heart, you would find SO many wonderful things: love, joy, passion, authenticity, respect, honor. I just do not understand why you would disclaim that!
Allison, Oklahoma City, USA
Atheism is in itself a blind faith. It is the easy option to lay ourselves and all that surrounds us to chance. Belief in God and His only son, Jesus Christ is not easy. Just ask Prof. Francis Collins, head of the human genome project.
Felix Black, Orpington, United Kingdom
To Jay, Aberystwyth, Wales...Another Christain labouring under the delusion that the mid winter festival is all about Christianity - a very quick analysis of pre christian history and also comparison with todays comercial mid winter shopping festival should confirm yet another Christain delusion...
AD Crawford, Glasgow,
Jesus and God are real. Of this I have no doubt. Look at the universe.Look at the trees. Look at the insects. Look at DNA. My word to believe that all of this could possibly spring up from nothing and on its own takes way more faith to believe than believing in God. Search your hearts. God is real.
Buddy, Springfield, United States
"The real test for belief is not what people say but what they do". Sound biblical teaching that. Whyte can't 'think clearly' with so narrow a view..look for active Christians to find belief in action. Do persecuted Christians "wish" for God, or do they pass your test for genuine faith in God?
jemima edell, haywars heath, UK
Religion exists because too many people would rather be led than lead.
Living by your own morals is tough, all those choices! Much better to invent an invisible friend in the sky that knows and sees all to make them all for you.
The whole sheep thing is much more than a metaphor.
donny, Fairfield, USA
Cultural leverage is a useful tool; hard to pry from the hands of those in control of defining it. The social nature of the human requires a shared understanding of reality for cooperation. Decisions made using "supernatural" means benefit no one, but shared affiliation is powerful and appealing.
J-man, South Texas , USA
I am a Christian & i think the point over inaction is well made. Sadly 3 problems persist: 1) a massive misunderstanding of the message of grace in the Bible 2) misunderstanding of the Christian view of people's hearts: we ARE all rubbish and sinful 3) people who say they are Christian and aren't..!
Andy, London, UK
I think Jesus himself made the same point: Luke 18:8 'when the Son of MAn comes, will he find faith on earth?' (NIV tranlation). However, I don't think Mr Whyte is actually recommending mlitant anti abortionism, or (eg) a more militant Islam. I think he would be horrified.
David Barnes, Greenford, UK
I don't believe they believe either. Nobody jumps up and down about the fact the sun will rise tomorrow. If they were sure, they'd be less dogmatic about it.
Anne R, Montreal, Canada
I don't believe that atheists such as Jamie Whyte really are atheists. He doesn't live acccording to his beliefs as an atheist. If he did he would not live as if there is right and wrong or that he loves his family or friends or delights in beauty or that his reasoning has any validity.
Kenneth Brownell, London,
Christianity and its values are a cultural phenomena. I suspect that the statistics denoting the number of christians worldwide would fall dramatically if they discounted all the hopeful agnostics and concentrated solely on those who profess to have a deep meaningful faith.
Scott Bowman, Brighton,
great article, spot on. I was around ten when I realised that God and Jesus belonged in the same pigeonhole as Santa and the Tooth Fairy, and it never ceases to amaze me how seemingly intelligent friends can profess to believe in an all powerful, all knowing supernatural being.
ianb, Stoke on Trent, Staffs
To Andrew Purser: So you've seen miracles? Nice. Have you thought off filming the amputee getting his limb back? That's be one nice proof of the existence of a god.
Tom, London,
Will Clouston:"When their children are ill they never 'trust in god' they call for Doctors to scientifically diagnose treat."
Trusting in God does not mean a guarantee of a miraculous cure, and can even mean a God-given painful death. Even in the bible miracles are exceptional.
Greg Lorriman, Leatherhead, UK
@ Will Clouston
Obviously you've never been to a Pentacostal or Evangelical Church! We're always praying for our sick and I've seen miracles. Trust me on this, most Christians I know believe. Just these days we take the bible that talks of loving others and 'do unto others' doctrine seriously.
andrew purser, york,
If you believe God created Man/Woman then Medicine in effect comes from God. So thus ones faith in 'Man's' Medicine is faith in God. Jamie Whyte obviously does not know many believers, to believe that they don't believe what they say they do.
Steven, Buckhurst Hill,
A truly excellent article which expresses in words what I have been thinking for some time.
Andy, London,
Whyte is correct. Religious people say they believe - but don't really. When their children are ill they never 'trust in god' they call for Doctors to scientifically diagnose treat.
will clouston, newcastle, england
I thought Americans don't need to constantly prove and reprove what they believe because they can sing "in God we trust"? Being able to trust is the bottom line, in my view. Knowing God means we can trust he exists without further explanation.
But you may have to trust me on this one, I believe.
Mrs.Josephine Hyde-Hartley, Bacup, UK
Joseph in Ireland, you cannot provide popular belief in god as evidence of god's existence. See: flat earth, geocentric universe, loch ness monster, santa claus. There is no god, we are (for practical purposes) alone in the universe. Let us go forward with that in mind.
David H., Mansfield Center, Connecticut, U.S.
The author forgets how powerful a God belief is to Christians. While some may find following the rules difficult, it is still comforting to have rules from on high to follow. Interpretation also changes things, giving religion a lot of wiggle room, as the bible is rather vague.
An avowed Agnostic
Jillian, Los Angelas, USA
Hi Jamie, so you don't believe in Heaven, and Hell, I "bet" you know little of what you don't Believe, and God is infallible.
Yet you are gullable to believe in sience, which is very fallible
indeed which is manmade also Darwins fallacy of deception
Research- N.D.Es
Joseph, wicklow, Ireland
What "lack of evidence for the central tenets of Christianity"? The conversion of untold numbers of previous "avowed atheists" to Christianity is pretty good evidence. Regardless, God is outside the jurisdiction of science and not subject to "evidence" or lack thereof.
Mike T., Roseville, CA, USA
"...the weight of living without a God'. Strange. When, after much thought and reflection, I realised that there is no god, I felt a great sense of relief, a huge weight off my shoulders. It was like a breath of oxygen, like finally leaving a really crap job. After a childhood of religion.
David Pearson, baltimore, United States
It is amazing to me how religious people become so defensive when confronted with critical thinking. The responses are generally so blind to the possibilities-- and usually rely upon logical fallacies and disingenuous analogies-- that it is right to be concerned, and worried about the future.
prufrock, St Paul, United States
The obvious flaw in this argument is that it is possible to believe something to a greater or lesser degree. We all believe in the inevitability of our own deaths, but how many of us really live in the light of this monumentally important fact? Lack of appropriate behaviour does not imply disbelief.
Peter, Glasgow,
Truely Christian belief that a supreme being created the universe is ludacris. Science has proven that all matter and energy came from nothing. Faith does not belong in the classroom where we have facts that disclose how everything came to be by mere chance.
Abraham Fleury, San Diego, USA
Mr Finnerty, agreed, kind of, the sale of carbon credits bears some resemblance to the sale of pardons, see G. Chaucer. The notion that you can feed 5,000 people with 2 loaves and 5 fish remains equally hard to credit. Although when it comes to the crunch ...
David Moss, London, UK
"The real test for genuine belief is not what people say, but what they do". This applies to atheists just as much as to religious believers and the new atheists, clinging to the morality of the Sermon on the Mount , and not the morality of the survival of the fittest , abysmally fail the test.
Jamie, London, UK
Instead of design and purpose, Whyte's vision of the origin is particles. Randomly associating particles and, over time, people! But really, just collections of particles. Meaningless. Whyte argues for meaninglessness. Why worry what people believe, then-its meaningless. In the beginning: particles!
Carson, Leatherhead,
It's sad isn't it.I agree, surely if Christians lived by the Bible,a book promoting peace&hating wrong-doing, then this world would be a very different place.Christians are failures,I think most, including me, would admit that. That's why Jesus came on the scene...please investigate his life!
Amy, West Bromwich,
Is the Enlightenment the geographical border in the land of the intellect that Mr Whyte suggests? Was everyone before then unintelligent? No. Have all mysteries been explained since then? No. What is consciousness? Still no answer. "God" is not a helpful answer. But the same mysteries remain.
David Moss, London, UK
And as for "if something defies belief, a good starting position is not to believe it," - well that's patently ludicrous. If Scientists failed to believe what begin as abstract theories how would it progress? Elements of quantum physics defie belief but i'm quite willing to believe it exists!
Matt, Birmingham, UK
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Mandy Wood, Oxford, UK
Jay, Aberystwyth. Jew, Muslims, Hindus etc also send and receive cards and presents at Christmas, us atheists are no more hypocritical than anybody else.
David Leslie, Perth, Scotland
A a believing Christian I observe the same world as Mr. Whyte, but while he sees no evidence there of a Creator, I do. The fact that the universe is intelligible, and the importance of love (a completely invisible phenomenon in itself) are evidence of a Creator who is both intelligent and loving.
Rob Leigh, Canterbury,
Mr. Whyte, your "arguments" seem to me like a poor copy of Richard Dawkins'.
The question to ask is not …
"do foetuses have an 'immortal soul' since conception?"
… but …
'if a foetus is a 'project' of human person, do we have the right to dispose of it as though it was a mere 'thing'?"
Miguel de Servet, Villanueva de Sijena, Spain
This country has struggled for many years with the issue of Tolerance. We've moved slowly and painfully towards racial, sexual and cultural tolerance; Because we are an increasingly multicultural society. Yet this article is filled with religious intolerance. Embrace love, not hate. Jesus is love.
Chris, Coventry,
Kim How can anyone be 100% certain that there is anything after this life. It is only the religious who believe in things 100%. Religion offers certainty without proof;science offers proof without certainty.
peter mckenna, liverpool,
What we truly believe can be politically inexpedient, personally challenging, socially isolating, painfulful or even meaningless, and we are free to ignore it when convenient and profess it when advantageous. And we do. It depends on who we are, where we are and when and who with.
Lars Torders, lowestoft,
Amen to that. I'm constantly weirded out by the fact that the anti science religious mob (nealy) aways seem to take medicines, fly in aeropanes and watch TV when it suits them. Some inconsistency,surely?
Neal Drummond, East Calder, Scotland
So Mr Whyte, what do you believe in, what are your values? Do you stick to these things without fail? If not, you do not believe in them. Is that what you mean by clear thinking?
i.e., Norwich, England
Just because these beliefs "sound" unbelievable to your subjective mode of reasoning, it does not mean they are. "If something defies belief, a good starting position is not to believe it." But the point is - it doesn't defy belief. Anyway, it's a rationally ungrounded starting-point.
David, London, UK
I am amazed by the lack of protest from faith groups such as C of E, Baptists, catholics, muslims, etc to the 600 daily abortions. Are they so afraid of defending their beliefs?
As for killing abortionists, Christians are against killing except in immediate defence; its called being pro-life.
Andy, Richmond, UK
It would be equally valid to ask the question 'how can so many people accept post modern gobbledegook'?
Bill, yeovil, UK
A Christian is a man who feels
Repentence on a Sunday
For what he did on Saturday
And is going to do on Monday.
John B, London,
I'm curious - Mr Whyte - what would be your position on all the atheists and agnostics who celebrate Christmas... send cards, give presents, and put up Xmas trees? Are they self-delusional too? Or just cheerfully hypocritical?
Jay, Aberystwyth, Wales
Jamie Whyte doesn't know how hard it is to keep the Christian laws in the face of temptation, loneliness, boredom, peer pressure etc, even with true belief and the threat of hell.
After all, rationalises the sinful Christian, I can always repent. Or worse still they convince themselves of no hell
Greg Lorriman, Leatherhead, UK
Religious people are silly. That's all there is to it.
Steffy, London,
I think you've hit the nail on the head, I've often come to similar conclusions myself.
And, if anything, it makes the whole thing more frightening.
Name Withheld, london,
Surely this line of argument applies just as surely to atheists. What about the weight of living without a God? Your line of reasoning exposes you as one who does not believe either
David , London,
Jamie has thrown down the gauntlet to us Christians therefore let us, " .. show our faith by our works." (Not that the secular society is interested in biblical truths or living but that shouldn't stop us).
Then he goes too far and writes, "All Christians fail to act on their avowed beliefs." All?
David Pitan, Surrey, UK
We need to be atheists in order to appreciate all religious gobbledygook.
ian cheese, london, uk
This is the kind of straw man argument you attack in your own books. I don’t believe you are serious. My religious beliefs do shape my whole life, but I’m no saint. And yes, I try to change the world a little bit, not by killing abortionists, but by trying to follow the example of Jesus.
Rene, Roden, the Netherlands
How can anyone be 100% certain that there is nothing after this life? Of course, sicence can explain most things, but not all things. Just as there is nothing certain in this life except change, there is nothing certain when we die.
It is not wrong to have faith.
kim, london,
You were one of my philosophy lecturers when I was at Cambridge in the 90s. I reject your 'realist' view of science. Science doesn't explain the origins of anything, it's merely a useful construction to help us form judgements about the future. This view lets religion and science coexist.
andrew, London,
"And atheists aren't always the self-interested hedonists one might expect"
Christiani beliefs should lead to Christian behaviour. But it puzzles me why atheism should supposedly lead to hedonism.
Tony B, Uckfield, UK
Why is there always confusion between religion and faith? Religion is the man made perversion of faith. Faith is individual, not collective. When you have faith you are a rock and it is on this rock that your own church is built. The truth SHALL set you free!
peter, london, UK
We believers take exactly the same view. How can non-believers not believe!
To us it seems incomprehensible in light of the adequte evidence: in nature; within us and the simple philosophical coherence of theistic creation.
Notice though this aritcle is anti-Christian not anti-theistic.
Nathan, Cambridge, UK
Thanks. Reading things like this brings hope that christianity can event. be expelled from politics and public life after all. I'm glad to live in one of the world's corners where in politics religious assertion no longer exists, where such a canditate would indeed be seen as an unelectable lunatic.
IL, Norway,
I don't believe many atheists really believe what they claim to believe. As you have no objective basis to morality or purpose then it shouldn’t matter to you what other people believe because nothing really matters. Isn’t there something else you can become obsessive about – golf, perhaps?
Paul, Nottingham,
"Suppose you believed that Heaven exists ....How would this affect your behaviour?"
If you also believed in Calvinist predestination, as Messrs Bush and Palin, being evangelicals, claim to, you'd behave like the 17th century Ranters. Which they do....
Ian Kemmish, Biggleswade, UK
Mr Whyte's point would be better made with a more consistent argument. 'Militancy' against abortion was terrorism. Did he approve of it then? Would Mr Whyte still hold to his argument if state and church rejoined and gave him 'heavenly' policies with 'heavenly' consequences? I doubt it.
Ali, Colchester, Essex
Fundamentalism and political correctness are pretty much the same thing, dressed up from the same wardrobe as the emperor's new clothes.
Rick Hepner, Salt Lake City, USA
But it's not just Christians who don't follow through. Determinists continue to talk as if they were "free" to judge the validity of an argument. And atheists aren't always the self-interested hedonists one might expect from believers in a meaningless universe with only a darwinian moral compass!
JS, Glasgow, UK
What's more annoying is that normal, intelligent people, scientists even (good grief!) really believe in the historical and spiritual identity of Jesus Christ and recognise that his teachings lead to a better life.
If you can't beat 'em....
Jonny, Queensland, Australia
Ditto KF's point. There is religion in all forms holding mankind back. Witness the religious zeal of those who oppose the science of gentics. Wouldn't want to improve crop yields through engineering, that would be 'wrong". No evidence AT ALL of problem with geneticly engineered foods.
Dan Carruthers , Boise, Idaho , USA
Religious angst is caused by the interference of bad thetans messing with our heads.
Lord Xenu loves us all and wants us to be happy, surely you realise THAT!
Scamper along to your nearest Scientology outpost - be sure to bring plenty of cash with you - and your enlightenment can start today!
Bill Corr, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
Now that's more like it. So much bolstering Christianity in the Times and Telegraph, about time we heard the alternative opinion. Equal space for Atheism.
Andrew Milner, Karuizawa, Japan
Great article! Let's see how the "believers" will argue their way out of this one. America is one nation under God, but the God is called Mamon.
Joris, Woerden, Holland
Paul, how can you be in Dallas and London at the same time ? I'd better start believing or I'll miss my entry to heaven.
Joris, Woerden, Holland
If people actually do believe that killing a foetus is equal to killing a real child, then it could be argued it is permissible to kill an abortion doctor if it were to save more lives. So the killers of abortion doctors really aren't insane - it's just a logical continuation of pro-life thinking...
Paul, Dallas,
Kant's Enlightenment could have been his reaction to an overbearingly strict religious upbringing.Despite its "civilizing"
commentary, Kant himself rprtdly delighted at the news of the
French Revolution.Murderous atheistic Communism/Nazism were the major global effects of Enlightenment philosophy.
Joan Moira Peters, Whangarei UK Citizen, temp o/seas in New Zealand
If you think that
1. abortion is equal to murder
2. lives can be sacrificed in order to save the lives of many
Then the logical continuation of this is to kill abortion doctors. By killing the doctors you are preventing more 'murders'. Is this insanity, or merely following the logic through?
Paul, London,
Quite right. If it were proved beyond doubt that Christian belief and dogma were all literally true, anyone with an I.Q. bigger than his shoesize would be absolutely astonished. But I don't think the "belief" is based on hope, more a result of the terrifying power of Group-Think.
Ken Leyland, Liverpool, U.K.
I'm an agnostic and I think unborn children should be protected. It's not about a soul, it's the knowledge that once a life has started there is no difference between destroying it ten weeks or ten years later. Interestingly, the foetuses killed in Omagh are included in the tally of those murdered.
Paul Williams, London, UK
Why do you care?
Why does it irritate and anger you so much?
Why is it necessary to attack Christianity?
Because you are not sure.
There's a part of you that wants to believe and you won't allow it.
That's very sad.
Roy, Vermont, USA
"But I do not think they are that wicked"
Jamie, you, an atheist and believer in the scientific approach must know that good & evil cannot exist An honest scientist cannot truly believe in these fairy tales about the existence of morality any more than a Christian could about, say, evolution
Mike, Rotherham,
Atheism is the state religion of a decaying culture; the new British state religion. Your column of atheism has every sign of a religious argument. (Religion: "that which is of ultimate importance.")
Could you imagin a Christian getting a platform such as the one you have; never happen in UK.
kris, Pass,
First, just because someone calls themself a Christian, does not mean that they are in fact a Christian, Second, do you 'believe' or do you 'wish' that this column actually has any meaning?....since under an Atheistic world view, we are all here by chance and have no purpose or meaning.
John, USA,
I'm a Catholic. My election vote always goes to the candidate most likely to vote for policies that will save unborn lives. Issues such as health care, education and housing are of little significance if the right to life is not accorded to all human beings at all stages of development.
Julia, Manchester, UK
The liberals' belief in man-made 'global warming' is just as 'irrational' as the traditional religious beliefs that the author decries. There is the same lack of evidence, the high priests like Al Gore, faith over science, proselytization, tithing, scorn of non-believers, etc.
Kevin Finnerty, Atlanta, USA